Dr. Bayo Curry-Winchell is a primary care physician, a nationally recognized health equity and maternal health advocate, and the founder of Beyond Clinical Walls, a platform offering credible health information through engaging social media and podcast content. We had the chance to chat with her in Las Vegas at the recent HLTH conference, a global innovation event attended by more than 12,000 entrepreneurs and experts from across the spectrum of health care – and beyond. Through our discussion, we learned how her work extends beyond traditional clinical settings and into the community.
See this podcast on the Nemours YouTube channel!
Guest:
Bayo Curry-Winchell, MD, Founder, Beyond Clinical Walls
Host/Producer: Carol Vassar
TRANSCRIPT:
Announcer:
Welcome to Well Beyond Medicine, the world’s top-ranked children’s health podcast produced by Nemours Children’s Health. Subscribe on any platform at nemourswellbeyond.org or find us on YouTube.
Carol Vassar, podcast host/producer:
Each week, we’re joined by innovators and experts from around the world, exploring anything and everything related to the 80% of child health impacts that occur outside the doctor’s office. I’m your host, Carol Vassar. And now that you are here, let’s go.
MUSIC:
Let’s go-o-o, Well Beyond Medicine.
Carol Vassar, podcast host/producer:
Welcome to the first in a series of audio and video podcasts recorded during our time at Health 2024 in Las Vegas. That’s HLTH, a global innovation event attended by more than 12,000 entrepreneurs and experts from across the spectrum of healthcare and beyond. People like this episode’s guest, Dr. Bayo Curry-Winchell. Dr. Bayo or Dr. BCW, as she’s known, is a primary care physician, a nationally recognized health equity and maternal health advocate, and the founder of Beyond Clinical Walls, a platform offering credible health information through engaging social media and podcast content. She was at Health to moderate two panels, including a panel featuring writer, Chelsea Clinton, vice chair of the Clinton Foundation. Our chat, which is also available on the Nemours YouTube channel, covers all of these topics, and begins with a discussion of how her work extends beyond traditional clinical settings, and into the community, and why she encourages her physician peers to do the same.
Dr. Bayo Curry-Winchell, Beyond Clinical Walls:
Well, when I think of the work that I get to do every single day, it really is beyond the traditional walls of the clinic. And I think that’s a piece that we often forget, that healthcare should be delivered in all areas. So, as a family medicine physician who practices, but also practices through different mediums to deliver care. And that’s through health literacy, through social media, television, speaking engagements. Really helping people get the information that they are craving, but in a way that’s digestible, engaging, and informative. And when you take care our healthcare beyond that traditional wall, which is what I believe in and which is why I became a physician, that is how you are going to bridge the gap of inequities and disparities. And when I think of the marginalized communities, which is my love and my passion to try to uplift, I get to help people through that journey. And it has been an amazing opportunity that really fills my cup.
Carol Vassar, podcast host/producer:
You are a podcaster. I don’t know if anyone can tell based on your voice, right?
Dr. Bayo Curry-Winchell, Beyond Clinical Walls:
So, I am a podcaster. I speak nationally and I have a series as well. And yes, it’s interesting that you mentioned that. When I fell into the media realm, it was all based on I really love how you deliver information to your patients. And so, what I do is whether you hear me speaking on a podcast, whether you see me as I was yesterday on the main stage with Chelsea Clinton, it’s the same because I am who I am. I’m authentic, and I believe in the work that I get to do and that’s why I’m here.
Carol Vassar, podcast host/producer:
It sounds like you have found effective ways to communicate with communities across the spectrum. Health equity is something you are passionate about. Talk about your work, reaching out and making sure that information that all communities are getting is accurate and evidence-based.
Dr. Bayo Curry-Winchell, Beyond Clinical Walls:
So, it starts from my father who was 99 years old. And I grew up going to different events and rallies. And I didn’t know why I was there, but I knew I was standing up for something and I knew there was amiss a piece of information that people weren’t aware of. And so, I thought to myself, if I can bring forward health information in a way that informs, that allows people to feel a part of their care, why not? And so, that is that history behind my love for really trying to reduce those inequities and disparities. And I saw what happened to my father and how he was often dismissed. And I thought, I know I can help by doing more through sharing information in a way that isn’t often heard, because you can’t help people if you can’t deliver the information in a way that they can do something about. And then experiencing my own level of dismissal in the healthcare system compounded that love and that drive to help as many people as I can.
Carol Vassar, podcast host/producer:
Talk about some of the key initiatives that you are involved with that help to bring about the health equity dream, or at least make certain that some of the inequities are addressed in our healthcare system and in the lives of individuals.
Dr. Bayo Curry-Winchell, Beyond Clinical Walls:
So, for me, as I mentioned the literacy piece. So, some of the initiatives that I’ve partnered with are national organizations, such as American Cancer Society, American Heart Association, partnering in my social media to share information in a way that you don’t often hear about. In a way that people do not feel like you’re being talked to, but you are a part of the conversation. And the fact that anytime you’re seeking care, you now have information that you can put forward. You have language to have a robust conversation with your doctor, especially if you understand what they’re saying.
Being able to give people that information of this is what you should ask your doctor when you don’t understand what they’re saying. This is what you should go in when you are confused or concerned about a topic that you don’t feel like has been addressed. And so, that’s how I partnered with national organizations. I partner with different societies. Anyone that I feel is in a level of centered healthcare and wanting to help people, I partner. So, people are always surprised when they’re like, “Oh, you do national news, you do this, you do that. Why do you do all of those mediums?” So, this answers your question. We all consume information in different ways. So, if I can spread myself through different modalities, I can help more people.
Carol Vassar, podcast host/producer:
We consume information in different ways. How can we assure in this world of misinformation about news, about healthcare, that the information people are consuming is accurate, evidence-based?
Dr. Bayo Curry-Winchell, Beyond Clinical Walls:
By embracing what technologies, what things they are actually taking in. Yes, there’s misinformation. And often I hear about, “Oh, we’ve got to combat misinformation. We’ve got to think about social media or shutting it down or shutting this down.” No, you need to embrace it. You need to innovate with it and find ways to uplift the credible information. Uplift those content creators, those scientists, those researchers, those people who are trying to advocate for accurate information. Help raise the bar, because you can’t change what the landscape is, but what you can do is elevate the right message.
Carol Vassar, podcast host/producer:
You are passionate about maternal health. I attended your session on maternal health. As we work towards making a system that is more equitable, what work still needs to be done, especially in the black community?
Dr. Bayo Curry-Winchell, Beyond Clinical Walls:
Understanding that this issue goes beyond access. I think especially when you think of the black community, there is this thought that, “Oh, it’s an access issue or it’s a social economic issue.” And when you put that into the playbook, you have missed the mark. Because these inequities and disparities for the black community span all social economic strata, all education pieces. And so, the fact that we continue to reinvent the wheel and not understand that it has to do with many elements. Bias plays a role, just general bias that we all have, as well as understanding the way we practice medicine and race-based medicine should not happen. It should be individual care.
And I’ll give a good example. One thing I’ve been advocating for change in this current climate, if you have high blood pressure and you are a black individual, you are recommended or it’s recommended two classes of antihypertensive medication, calcium channel blockers and thiazides. Why? Because based on before clinical trials, this thought that black individuals would do better with certain classes of hypertension medication, it’s not true. Let me focus on why. Race is a social construct. Black, that is the color of my skin. That is not my genetics. And so, currently, we have a practice in play that impacts black individuals every day.
And then let’s go full circle. Black individuals are dying at one of the highest rates from kidney disease. How is one part of getting kidney disease is uncontrolled hypertension? And if you are offered two classes of high blood pressure medication just based on the color of your skin versus any other medication, how are you supposed to be at an equitable playing field? Let’s go back and look at the clinical trials and let’s look at people’s genetics, not the color of their skin, and then think about medication. And that’s how we’re going to move that needle when you talk about individual care.
Carol Vassar, podcast host/producer:
What does the healthcare system of the future look like? We’re here at Health, we’re seeing so much innovation. What does it look like to you?
Dr. Bayo Curry-Winchell, Beyond Clinical Walls:
Bringing different people to the table, a level of diversity within representation. And that means in all areas, because often I’ll hear from different organizations in healthcare, “We’re diverse.” Well, their diversity is in one section of their company. It’s not all throughout. And if you want to hit all areas of health, you need to make sure that your entire system is diverse and looking at bias. Because even the most well-intended institutions, we all have it. So, once you can acknowledge it and then take note of how you can change, that’s how we’re going to make progress. And that’s what excites me here to have this coalesce, this group of people all coming together to talk about things in a new way. And that’s why with yesterday’s talk with Chelsea Clinton and Jennifer Klein, to be able to talk about reproductive rights in a different way that people had not thought about and let’s just center on health.
Carol Vassar, podcast host/producer:
I’m curious. Once somebody looks at themselves and says, “I’m biased, we all are,” how can healthcare professionals ensure their work is inclusive, that their work is equitable, especially when they’re interacting with patients from such diverse cultures, socioeconomic backgrounds and the like?
Dr. Bayo Curry-Winchell, Beyond Clinical Walls:
The first step is acknowledging, and the second step is checking yourself on a regular basis. Because to your point, it’s something that we all will always have. So, when you acknowledge it and then you check it. Each time when you are delivering care and you take note and say, “Am I delivering this care based on a bias, or am I delivering this care based on this individual,” you can make a huge difference. I remember I gave a talk to this amazing organization that was an FQHC, who’s rooted in helping those who have been historically excluded or underserved.
And when I shared with them, you have bias, your protocol, some of the things that you’re putting forward, it doesn’t mean that you’re not in it with the people that you’re trying to help, but you’re missing it when you don’t recognize that even you can have that. You can even have these thoughts where, well, this person may not have these funds, so maybe they shouldn’t have this medication or maybe I shouldn’t offer this resource.
Carol Vassar, podcast host/producer:
What are your concerns about bias in AI, in virtual reality, et cetera? I’ve heard a lot of concern about that in other people I’ve spoken with. What are your concerns?
Dr. Bayo Curry-Winchell, Beyond Clinical Walls:
I’m concerned that we are going to continue to perpetuate the bias that’s already present. You have it already embedded in the system and then you put it forward for clinicians to put forward. You’re missing that piece where if we don’t take it out of the actual system, it’s in the system and then that clinician is putting it forward to the patient. So, you can have the most robust system, but if it’s embedded in the bias that’s already there. And that’s why I give the example, we have this historically form of delivering care that has been present for how long. And now with AI, it’s going to be more dispersed when we talk about high blood pressure, when we talk about medication delivery. So, I hope that we can utilize the great tools that we have of AI, but recognize it doesn’t replace the fact that bias, racism, sexism will still be present based on especially who may deliver it.
Carol Vassar, podcast host/producer:
Where do you want to see the healthcare system in five years, 10 years, in terms of diversity, in terms of racial equity?
Dr. Bayo Curry-Winchell, Beyond Clinical Walls:
I would love to see… For me, personally, as a black female physician, I represent less than 3% of physicians in the US, although our overall population is greater than 14%. I hope that we have more physicians of color, of every color. And that’s what I talk about, because we often kind of do this grouping of black and brown individuals. Let’s dissect that. Let’s have more black physicians, more of different ethnicities, backgrounds, culture. Because I think when you’re culturally competent, you’re linguistically competent, and you’re able to acknowledge the bias and the things that are happening, then you can focus on that patient. And that’s when all of those areas will actually pour over into better care.
Carol Vassar, podcast host/producer:
Anything that I haven’t asked that you want to share?
Dr. Bayo Curry-Winchell, Beyond Clinical Walls:
A level of gratitude for the opportunity to share this information. I take it to heart. And whether it’s on a podcast, whether it’s speaking, I hope to help someone listening right now to know one thing, that they can help themselves, their family member or someone else. So, my parting ways are thank you.
Carol Vassar, podcast host/producer:
And thank you. Dr. Bayo Curry-Winchell, founder of Beyond Clinical Walls, you are amazing. Thank you for your time today.
Dr. Bayo Curry-Winchell, Beyond Clinical Walls:
Thank you.
MUSIC:
Well beyond medicine.
Carol Vassar, podcast host/producer:
Thanks to Dr. Dr. Bayo Curry-Winchell for joining us on the Nemours Well Beyond Medicine podcast. And as always, thanks to you for listening. Don’t forget if you’d like to see and hear my conversation with Dr. Curry-Winchell recorded live at Health 2024, visit the Nemours YouTube channel. We’ll put a link in the show notes so you can find it easily. More of our conversations from Health 2024 are on the way in the coming weeks, including my chats with Mark Del Monte, CEO of the American Academy of Pediatrics, and Micky Tripathi, national coordinator for Health Information Technology. As always, all of our episodes are available on our website, nemourswellbeyond.org. That’s where you can also subscribe to the podcast and leave a review. That’s nemourswellbeyond.org. Our production team for this episode includes Susan Masucci, Lauren Teta, Cheryl Munn, and Sebastian Riella. I’m Carol Vassar. Until next time, remember, we can change children’s health for good well beyond medicine.
MUSIC:
Let’s go-o-o, Well Beyond Medicine.
